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	<title>Comments on: Energizer Batteries</title>
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	<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 11:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshebben.com/wp/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-168</guid>
		<description>I disagree 
Can you give more info?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree<br />
Can you give more info?</p>
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		<title>By: Martina</title>
		<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Martina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 04:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi everyone this is my first comment and this site is very nice for me wish he all the best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everyone this is my first comment and this site is very nice for me wish he all the best.</p>
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		<title>By: Minnesota battery service listings</title>
		<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Minnesota battery service listings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Minnesota battery service listings...&lt;/strong&gt;

[...] most intelligent people we''ve found, so obviously you''ll fit right in! F3172A - HP F2299A Battery::HP F3172A Laptop Battery 4400mAh,Cheap HP F3172A Batteries For Sale! 1 vote Vote Submitted by liushui2008_123 1 day ago If you want to [...]...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Minnesota battery service listings&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>[...] most intelligent people we&#8221;ve found, so obviously you&#8221;ll fit right in! F3172A - HP F2299A Battery::HP F3172A Laptop Battery 4400mAh,Cheap HP F3172A Batteries For Sale! 1 vote Vote Submitted by liushui2008_123 1 day ago If you want to [...]&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Snappy!</title>
		<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Snappy!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 01:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshebben.com/wp/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-32</guid>
		<description>Just to point out that having a larger mAh will not require you to always charge for 24hrs. If you need to use it for an emergency, you can always charge it for as long as you can and use it. A higher capacity merely indicates the maximum power it can store, and hence the maximum time required for full charge which is higher, but you can always quarter or half charge it and use it to meet your needs.

Granted, half-charging your rechargeables repeatedly can be damaging for them. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to point out that having a larger mAh will not require you to always charge for 24hrs. If you need to use it for an emergency, you can always charge it for as long as you can and use it. A higher capacity merely indicates the maximum power it can store, and hence the maximum time required for full charge which is higher, but you can always quarter or half charge it and use it to meet your needs.</p>
<p>Granted, half-charging your rechargeables repeatedly can be damaging for them. <img src='http://joshebben.com/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 22:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshebben.com/wp/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Try Maha/Powerex.  I've been using their battery packs in two-way radios for years and they've been very good.  Maha has a new product out called Imedion that claims ultra-low self-discharge, but I haven't tried them yet.  They also have 11,000 mAH D cells if you're looking for capacity.

Sony's "Stamina" AAs are pretty good, too.

And you're right, Troy:  I have a fistful of Duracell/Energizer AAs and AAAs.  They're great for about 25 cycles and and blow chunks after that.

--Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try Maha/Powerex.  I&#8217;ve been using their battery packs in two-way radios for years and they&#8217;ve been very good.  Maha has a new product out called Imedion that claims ultra-low self-discharge, but I haven&#8217;t tried them yet.  They also have 11,000 mAH D cells if you&#8217;re looking for capacity.</p>
<p>Sony&#8217;s &#8220;Stamina&#8221; AAs are pretty good, too.</p>
<p>And you&#8217;re right, Troy:  I have a fistful of Duracell/Energizer AAs and AAAs.  They&#8217;re great for about 25 cycles and and blow chunks after that.</p>
<p>&#8211;Mark</p>
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		<title>By: Troy</title>
		<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 20:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshebben.com/wp/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Ok,
so im going to go out on a limb, and say energizer and duracell make inferior batteries. Who makes quality batteries? Please let me know for i would like to start purchasing thier batteries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok,<br />
so im going to go out on a limb, and say energizer and duracell make inferior batteries. Who makes quality batteries? Please let me know for i would like to start purchasing thier batteries.</p>
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		<title>By: sniper1rfa</title>
		<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>sniper1rfa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshebben.com/wp/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>In addition to the above:

They MUST increase the charge current. NiMH cells don't trickle-charge well. In fact, most mfg's like sanyo and gold peak actively discourage trickle charging in favor of a dV/t terminated fast charge.

Also, from what i've seen, most products that take "D" cells, and there aren't many anymore, require 4 to 8 batteries.

Four tenergy D batteries go for about 50 dollars. Not many people are smart enough to realize that it's not a bad deal, and a good portion of the rest simply can't afford it. Not many people are willing to put 50 bucks in batteries in a flashlight. 

Hell, "D" batteries aren't even common for OEM purposes. Even EV's and stuff use SubC.


Energizer D rechargeables are really mostly just legacy support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to the above:</p>
<p>They MUST increase the charge current. NiMH cells don&#8217;t trickle-charge well. In fact, most mfg&#8217;s like sanyo and gold peak actively discourage trickle charging in favor of a dV/t terminated fast charge.</p>
<p>Also, from what i&#8217;ve seen, most products that take &#8220;D&#8221; cells, and there aren&#8217;t many anymore, require 4 to 8 batteries.</p>
<p>Four tenergy D batteries go for about 50 dollars. Not many people are smart enough to realize that it&#8217;s not a bad deal, and a good portion of the rest simply can&#8217;t afford it. Not many people are willing to put 50 bucks in batteries in a flashlight. </p>
<p>Hell, &#8220;D&#8221; batteries aren&#8217;t even common for OEM purposes. Even EV&#8217;s and stuff use SubC.</p>
<p>Energizer D rechargeables are really mostly just legacy support.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Tomich</title>
		<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Tomich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshebben.com/wp/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Firstly, your points are all valid and agreeable.  However, two problembs bubble up.  According to Amazon, two Energizer D NiMH cost $12.87.  Four Energizer AA NiMH cost $12.00.  All of them are composed of the exact same 2500 mAh cell.  This follows your guides of production, the D's and the AA's are made of the same cell off the same assembly line using the same tech and the same R&#38;D etc.  The price is not even close, basically 2x for the D's.  Secondly, as you point out they perform terrible in flashlights because of discharge problem.  So basically, once the consumer wastes their $12.87 and finds they don't work very well in their flashlight they can throw them away and buy regular alkalines again.  Basically, Energizer should not sell D rechargeables because they are a bad product to begin with.  This is my spin on that logic, I love rechargables myself, in everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, your points are all valid and agreeable.  However, two problembs bubble up.  According to Amazon, two Energizer D NiMH cost $12.87.  Four Energizer AA NiMH cost $12.00.  All of them are composed of the exact same 2500 mAh cell.  This follows your guides of production, the D&#8217;s and the AA&#8217;s are made of the same cell off the same assembly line using the same tech and the same R&amp;D etc.  The price is not even close, basically 2x for the D&#8217;s.  Secondly, as you point out they perform terrible in flashlights because of discharge problem.  So basically, once the consumer wastes their $12.87 and finds they don&#8217;t work very well in their flashlight they can throw them away and buy regular alkalines again.  Basically, Energizer should not sell D rechargeables because they are a bad product to begin with.  This is my spin on that logic, I love rechargables myself, in everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshebben.com/wp/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-26</guid>
		<description>A note about batteries and chargers:

Battery chargers work by providing a slightly higher voltage than a discharged battery would have.  That essentially forces energy into the battery, which stores it up for use later.  The problem is that you can't just connect, say, 1.5V to a 1.2V cell, because the cell will ingest energy at the highest rate the source can provide it.  That sounds like a recipe for a nice, fast, charge, but the process has the side effect of producing heat, too much of which will damage the battery.

To get around that problem, chargers are built with a circuit that limits the amount of current to what's safe for the cell.  Most battery chemistries charge best in the neighborhood of 10% of their capacity.  In other words, a 2000 mAh AA cell charges best at a rate of about 200 mA, and a 9000 mAh D cell does best at a rate of 900 mA.  (There are high-capacity C and D cells available from battery supply houses.  They run about $25 each.)  You can charge the D cell in a low-rate charger designed for AAs, but it's going to take more than four times as long to get a full charge.  You can't do the opposite, because a high-rate charger that thinks it's charging Cs or Ds will happily feed a AA more current than it can handle safely.  You may have noticed that the 15-minute rapid chargers that have appeared in the last few years have fans in them.   That allows a higher charge rate by getting the heat away from the batteries.

Energizer's claim about the economics of Cs and Ds is correct: the market just isn't there for them.   AAs and AAAs are far and away in the majority of batteries sold, so the economies of scale in manufacturing them are much greater.  Cs and Ds are relegated mostly to flashlights, where the self-discharge rates on rechargeables make alkalines a better choice if you expect them to work after a year of being under the seat of your car.

--Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A note about batteries and chargers:</p>
<p>Battery chargers work by providing a slightly higher voltage than a discharged battery would have.  That essentially forces energy into the battery, which stores it up for use later.  The problem is that you can&#8217;t just connect, say, 1.5V to a 1.2V cell, because the cell will ingest energy at the highest rate the source can provide it.  That sounds like a recipe for a nice, fast, charge, but the process has the side effect of producing heat, too much of which will damage the battery.</p>
<p>To get around that problem, chargers are built with a circuit that limits the amount of current to what&#8217;s safe for the cell.  Most battery chemistries charge best in the neighborhood of 10% of their capacity.  In other words, a 2000 mAh AA cell charges best at a rate of about 200 mA, and a 9000 mAh D cell does best at a rate of 900 mA.  (There are high-capacity C and D cells available from battery supply houses.  They run about $25 each.)  You can charge the D cell in a low-rate charger designed for AAs, but it&#8217;s going to take more than four times as long to get a full charge.  You can&#8217;t do the opposite, because a high-rate charger that thinks it&#8217;s charging Cs or Ds will happily feed a AA more current than it can handle safely.  You may have noticed that the 15-minute rapid chargers that have appeared in the last few years have fans in them.   That allows a higher charge rate by getting the heat away from the batteries.</p>
<p>Energizer&#8217;s claim about the economics of Cs and Ds is correct: the market just isn&#8217;t there for them.   AAs and AAAs are far and away in the majority of batteries sold, so the economies of scale in manufacturing them are much greater.  Cs and Ds are relegated mostly to flashlights, where the self-discharge rates on rechargeables make alkalines a better choice if you expect them to work after a year of being under the seat of your car.</p>
<p>&#8211;Mark</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Tomich</title>
		<link>http://joshebben.com/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Tomich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joshebben.com/wp/2007/11/21/energizer-batteries/#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Facts / replies to reddit comments:
In 1898 National Carbon Company introduced the first D cell battery. This battery style is way older than the Maglite (1979). The alkaline D cell is 19500 mAh. The alkaline C cell is 8000 mAh. So clearly the choice for size is all about power, or at least how long the light will last. You could always design a comfortable padded handle for any size battery.

Reply to the "let consumers decide" notion:
Consumers that buy brand name products do so via the notion that a brand name product (mainstream Wal-Mart stock) is trustworthy and better for all reasons meriting a high price.  I doubt they are going to shop around just before Christmas for a set of rechargeable D cell batteries for a few hours and have them shipped when they could just snag a set at Wal-Mart or Best Buy.  It's not entirely fair to push blame onto a consumer.  I’ve always hated off brand batteries for short life and leakage, and usually buy brand name batteries despite the price with the notion that spending more will result in better life span and quality, but these batteries do not honor that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Facts / replies to reddit comments:<br />
In 1898 National Carbon Company introduced the first D cell battery. This battery style is way older than the Maglite (1979). The alkaline D cell is 19500 mAh. The alkaline C cell is 8000 mAh. So clearly the choice for size is all about power, or at least how long the light will last. You could always design a comfortable padded handle for any size battery.</p>
<p>Reply to the &#8220;let consumers decide&#8221; notion:<br />
Consumers that buy brand name products do so via the notion that a brand name product (mainstream Wal-Mart stock) is trustworthy and better for all reasons meriting a high price.  I doubt they are going to shop around just before Christmas for a set of rechargeable D cell batteries for a few hours and have them shipped when they could just snag a set at Wal-Mart or Best Buy.  It&#8217;s not entirely fair to push blame onto a consumer.  I’ve always hated off brand batteries for short life and leakage, and usually buy brand name batteries despite the price with the notion that spending more will result in better life span and quality, but these batteries do not honor that.</p>
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